Oyster Insights: From Farm to Table

mark (: 00:00

it gone buddy

sam (: 00:02

Good mate, how are you?

mark (: 00:03

Pretty good, pretty good. Here we are on another episode of the burnt broadcast and I can't wait to get into what we're talking about this week. I saw you went to the oyster festival. Can you tell us a bit about that? Maybe we start with a note about the oyster festival. That might be a good idea.

sam (: 00:20

Yeah, mate.

Yeah, mate. I tell you, I now have a much more deeper appreciation for oyster farmers. I didn't realize how intense farming oysters was. Absolutely. Possibly, I think one of the hardest things I've seen, like really hard grafting sort of work involved in growing these oysters that you and I just eat in like 10 seconds.

I mean, the process in getting the oysters to grow, is crazy. And the amount of times that actually have to handle the oysters, they're almost like handling little babies and growing little babies. And, you know, these guys don't see profit till, you know, maybe three years later. it's insane. the, the chipping.

mark (: 01:22

So how does

it work? Give us a little bit, little more details. How does it work?

sam (: 01:27

Yeah, well, look, I mean,

I guess, you know, like in the beginning, the oysters, they don't even, you know, when they when they first put them into the waters and stuff like that, they don't even look like oysters, man. They just look like, look, I never know what they look like. They just look weird. And then they start growing them and you know, and then within a couple of weeks, they start to like, you know, they start to grow a little bit bigger. But it's more so the the manual labor that goes into it, like the flipping of the the flipping of the bags and stuff like that.

making sure that they get all the little bits and pieces off of them so they come to us clean in the restaurant. And I just couldn't believe, you know, like these guys are going out there on little tinies, sitting in the most uncomfortable positions and flipping hundreds and hundreds of bags and shaking these little bags or cages of...

of oysters and it's it's it's it's almost insane. You know, and then they take those back to the like when they when they're ready, they take them out, bring them back and then they then then they chip everything off of them to make them all nice and clean for us. And this whole process is just to get the I can't remember what it's called for the life of me but there's these little things that grow on them. You know that make the oysters look quite ugly. And

whole process is to get those things off of them. So that we get them nice and pretty in the restaurant, and then they're easier for us to shock. But some of the things that I saw, like, when you take a when that when you take these fresh was like, are we able to eat them straight from the water, like we pull them out of the water, shock them, and eat them then and there. And it's absolutely amazing to see the difference in flavor. And

mark (: 02:59

Nice.

sam (: 03:20

just how cool. I know. And you just don't, I mean, I didn't know that oysters would stay alive up to six hours after shucking them.

mark (: 03:20

when you eat an oyster so fresh.

sam (: 03:31

It was either four or 16 ones.

mark (: 03:31

That

takes me back in memory to the island, East KIA in Napoli, when I was there a few years ago. And I don't look, to be honest, I don't usually go for seafood. And I'm sure you know that by now. But yes, but when I did, when I was overseas,

sam (: 03:53

Yeah, I know you're not a safe guy.

mark (: 04:01

the flavor it was absolutely different. Like the number one reason why I don't usually go to for seafood is because maybe my initial experiences with seafood in here was wasn't that great. Like it would taste tasteless for me. It's mostly for every time I had seafood, a fish or whatever. It was mostly it's been tasteless. But when

sam (: 04:30

Really?

mark (: 04:31

Yes, until obviously then later on when we when I got engaged in the restaurant game, and we were we started visiting all these good restaurants. Obviously, it's a different it's a different ball game altogether. Exactly. But but still, I'm still not big on seafood. But when I was over overseas in this island, East Kyiv, and

sam (: 04:47

different kettle of fish.

mark (: 05:01

They really wanted me to try some of their seafood. I don't know there was like fish and there was like Prawns and this all sort of stuff and and every time I to and mussels and but every time I tasted something I would be absolutely amazed like the flavor the texture the And I asked why is it so tasty?

asked the question, why is it so tasty? What do you do to it? They said to me they don't really do anything other than it's not not only that it's because where it comes from. So the the the the sea in Italy is different from the ocean that we have here. So the sea is is more of like, it's saltier. Yeah.

sam (: 05:37

salted Grilla.

100%.

mark (: 05:57

and you almost get your seafood organically, naturally marinated before even, you know, you get it out of the water. And that's why it's so tasty and it's so fresh. And this is why I think I liked it so much. And because I come from, obviously, the Mediterranean region of the world, I appreciate it so much, I guess. Yeah, so that was that.

sam (: 06:20

Such a palette.

for us.

mark (: 06:27

And what do you what do you think? Does it really matter if you get seafood out of the sea or the ocean? What's what's the difference?

sam (: 06:35

To be honest with you, I just think sometimes it's just about the way it's cooked, how fresh it is as well. I think especially here in Australia, we think just because a restaurant's sitting on the ocean that they have the freshest fish or the most amazing oysters or crustaceans, but they don't sometimes, which is quite sad to see. You know.

mark (: 06:40

Mm -hmm.

sam (: 07:00

If you're down on the ocean with a restaurant or anywhere, you should be serving the most freshest quality produce you can, especially when it comes to seafood. And I think that plays a really big part in the food that we eat, the taste of the seafood, sorry. You know, and...

mark (: 07:15

the taste of the seafood. Yes, and the texture. Well, you know

what? I agree with that. And there is another element, I guess, that's playing in there since I'm in the marketing game. It's just the magic of the frame, the magic of the brand or the magic of the story of where you are. Like you were saying, if you know that...

You're in Italy, you're on an island, and you're eating seafood. Right. So yeah. So psychologically you're just, you're on a whole, on a whole nother planet. So it doesn't matter how good it was. It's always going to be, you know, extra like your perceptions. You have, wow. This is amazing. But if you, if you, if I would have eaten the exact same seafood that I had there in.

sam (: 07:47

That all adds to it.

mark (: 08:08

in here and in a different restaurant, in a different frame and a different story, it would not have tasted the same. Yeah.

sam (: 08:15

Of course, mate. I mean, like

when we were doing, I mean, we went down to Naruma to have a look at one of these many oyster farms that we looked at. And we went with Appalachian oysters, some of the best oysters out there. And I'll tell you what, these guys, and I'm not a big fan of cooked oysters. I can't stand cooked oysters.

mark (: 08:21

Yeah.

sam (: 08:37

But these guys, they had a little fire going. And this was about nine o 'clock in the morning. And you know me, I'll eat anything at any time. It was about nine o 'clock in the morning. They had a little fire going right down by the water. You know, and when you walk down there, you're almost walking on oyster shells. And I'm not even joking. Like you, you literally walk down there and the whole floor is almost covered in oyster shells.

And I saw this little fire going and then they came out with these beautiful, beautiful Pacific oysters, larger ones. And they were just throwing them straight on the fire, cooking them just until they popped. And as soon as they popped the shell, they'd take them off, open them and they gave them to them just like that. And I'll tell you what, the flavor from the fire, just that wood burning gave it just that little bit of smokiness. And they were still just a little bit raw in the middle.

which made them absolutely amazing. And you literally, I reckon I sat there and ate maybe I think 30 of them that day, including all the other raw ones that I ate for the rest of the whole time that we were there. I must've had at least a thousand oysters. We were just eating constantly, just, you know, they were popping them and we were eating them and we were throwing the shells just straight back into the water where they were grown. Like that's quite special to be able to just throw the oyster shells straight back in.

mark (: 09:41

Wow.

sam (: 09:56

give all the minerals, give it all back to the oysters that are regrowing for our consumption. It's quite a beautiful thing. And I have never seen such clear water in my entire life. The water actually wasn't even that salty. I actually stuck my fingers in the water and just gave it a little taste. Cause I saw one of the other guys who was with us from Ocean Made, he was there and I saw him and I was like, what's he doing? He's...

sticking his hands in the water, he's tasting the water. I was like, what are you doing? He's tasting the water. He goes, I just want to see how salty it was for the oysters. Okay. Yeah. And so I did the same thing and made the water wasn't that salty, but it was extremely clear. You could literally see the grass growing underneath it. It was absolutely amazing. Like there was like the sea weedy grass sort of growing underneath these oysters.

mark (: 10:30

Wow.

Nice.

sam (: 10:48

And it was absolutely amazing. I mean, like I didn't sit there and listen to every single thing they say because it can get a little bit intense, but the work that they do and the knowledge that these guys have about oysters. I mean, Appalachian oysters are just on another level. These guys really know their oysters. Davin, Pip and Joe, these guys, I would say just on another, on another, on another world when it comes to oysters.

mark (: 10:54

Yes.

sam (: 11:18

And they're really, really taking things to the next level with technology and how they do things with oysters.

mark (: 11:19

That's

Here you go. So this this this story alone and makes you appreciate oysters. And I bet whoever would listen to this episode would appreciate oysters more and and I bet you the oysters will taste better. Yes.

sam (: 11:41

made oysters always tastes better. And you know what one of the best

things was? I, you know, I mean, we really got the full treatment, you know, they brought us to the, we went to like four or five different farms. I mean, we had a really great weekend. We rocked up to the to the to the Naruma Oyster Festival. And mate, I have never seen so many people going crazy for oysters. I didn't think it was going to be that intense. We got there. There were people dancing.

There was music, it was loud. I mean, all you had to do was jump on my Instagram and have a look you must have seen. We rocked up on a boat, tinny, you know, like straight from an oyster boat, straight onto the sand, into the festival, straight into the Appalachians oysters, into their little tent that they had there, treated like a gold class.

mark (: 12:23

Mm -hmm.

sam (: 12:33

had another meal later on on the water down there. And it was absolutely amazing. And then I got to do my favorite, my favorite thing. I wasn't expecting to do as well as I did. I got to jump in and have a go at oyster shucking against some pretty intense oyster shuckers.

mark (: 12:55

Well, so out of this experience, what does it teach you or what does it inspire you or what should it teach or inspire other restaurant owners? Is there like, there is a method to the sanity, there is what strategy, concept, story?

What things that people can learn from this and implement in their own business? Like how would you take from what these guys are doing and then implement it in someone else brand or someone else story?

sam (: 13:32

here, look, Mark, I think with something like that, I think, you know, oysters last a lot longer than you think. they're a lot more delicate, than they are actually being handled in restaurants. oyster shuckers, and people who deal with oysters for a living are crazy insane about the way that the oysters are handled. you know, down to,

mark (: 13:39

Mm -hmm.

sam (: 14:00

I mean, man, I was learning things that I never learned before. Like, did you know that when you can tell that an oyster has been opened by just looking at it by the, there's a little abductor and it should be looking like just a top, you know, you get the little white part in your nail there. If that isn't white, you know, that oyster has been open for a while and it's possibly dead. You know, and...

mark (: 14:19

Mm -hmm.

Interesting.

sam (: 14:28

The way that you store oysters, they don't always have to be in a freezing, freezing cold fridge. I mean, these guys were storing them at like 13 degrees in Hessian bags. And they last for a long bloody time in those wet Hessian bags.

mark (: 14:38

Interesting. Here you go.

I love it, man. Look, I love the technical part of it, but I also love the story behind it. So from where I from my lens, as you know, being in marketing, I'm if I was a restaurant owner and I'm listening to you and you're telling me this whole story about oysters and how delicate it is and how, you know, how delicate is the process is and how long it takes and how labor intensive it is.

and you just go on and on and on and on, and it just makes you appreciate oysters so much more. So if I was a restaurant owner, what, you know, what recipes or what dishes or what foods that order, what desserts or anything that's I serve in the restaurant, what sort of stories I can tell on, on social media or on our website or anywhere that we can communicate, stuff like that. So people can.

Pay attention to the method the process the the labor intensivist that all this storytelling makes people appreciate your restaurant more appreciate your menu more and they're more willing to To Match what you're charging versus you know what you're offering because now you have a story behind that dish and if you could that if you could create a

a story behind every dish that you have on the menu. I personally believe that would be, will create wonders for someone's business. The power of storytelling.

sam (: 16:25

Of course, I

also think too, like I've only just barely touched the surface of what these guys, you know, of what I see, what I learn. You know, it's a bit harder for me to explain. But I think, you know, if you're an apprentice, if you're...

mark (: 16:33

Sure, absolutely.

sam (: 16:42

If you're a chef, I don't care what you are, if you're in the hospitality industry and you like oysters, and you haven't been to an oyster farm, I suggest you get in touch with the guys down there at Appalachian oysters and try and get out there and have a look at some of the things that they do. Because I'm telling you, once you see this staff, you will be shocked and you'll be on another world once you experience it. It's not only a beautiful thing,

But it's a good thing because these guys are trying to change the industry. Some of them have been in the industry for generations, you know, like, that, you know, they're just passing it down and passing it down and passing it down. And each, each generation is adding a little bit more and adding newer and better things to make the industry, I guess, very, very sustainable.

mark (: 17:38

Exactly, exactly. I love this man. That was a really good start. And it was a long segment. Yeah.

sam (: 17:46

And serve your oysters, serve your oysters

cleanly, you know, serve your oysters cleanly. and when I say cleanly, don't worry too much about removing all the shell from it and all this kind of stuff. Like that's a part of it. You know, it's a part of it. You don't have to sit there and wash your oysters and all this crap that I see, you know, taking out too much of the little bits of debris inside of there. Like oysters have got shell in them. You're going to get a little bit of shell in them. Like.

mark (: 17:58

Mm -hmm.

sam (: 18:13

You know, restaurants need to chill the fuck out about that stuff. They're actually removing away the connection between what it is and what you're getting in the restaurant. I understand you want to have clean oysters and blah, blah, blah. And the customers might complain that there's a shell in it or whatever, but it's a fucking oyster. It's got a shell on it. Shut the fuck up.

mark (: 18:19

Exactly.

wow. Well I guess...

sam (: 18:34

Obviously, obviously there's a

bit of PTSD there with that.

mark (: 18:37

I guess, I guess that again, like it comes down to what sort of story you're telling about your restaurant and, and how you're communicating, you're offering to people, what sort of clientele you're attracting all of that make, you know, makes a difference. If you get people that eat oysters once, you know, once, once a year and they expect it to be super clean, like coming from, from a hospital,

it's going to be difficult to explain to them. Well, you know, that's how it's meant to be. So really it comes down to you risk that 1 % of people that they're not going to be happy for to create a bit of a story around your oysters and get a lot more people to come and, you know, and buy into the story that you're telling. There's always that sort of like risk give and take that you'll...

that you'll have to take on I guess.

sam (: 19:39

you know what, though, Mark, I'll tell you what, there's something I mean, I, I love oysters here, but I didn't realize that that many people love oysters. I mean, we were in this tent. And I reckon there was about I mean, it was pissing with rain. And I was told it's normally double the size for the oyster shucking competition. And we were in this tent, and I reckon there's about, I don't know, like 500 people squashed into this tent for oyster shucking competition.

I mean, look, I got up there and I was a bit, you know, at first I was a bit nervous, but I probably had a few too many drinks to care. and you know, I won my heat. I shucked an oyster. I shucked 20 oysters in three minutes. and I thought that was fast. And then the guy who won the bloody thing shucked, 30 oysters, sorry. Yeah. 30 oysters in a minute and 20 seconds. So these guys are crazy. You know, I mean,

mark (: 20:30

That's not...

sam (: 20:33

They're always the wild. And I mean, mate, the crowd, the energy, and I say crowd, because it sounded like I was in a fucking WWF arena. You know, like I thought I was a wrestler in a WWF arena getting, getting cheered on. I was like, what the hell is going on in this place? Unless I'd had just way too many Negronis and I thought something was going on that wasn't.

mark (: 20:34

That's nuts.

Exhibition.

Wow.

That's amazing, man. So speaking of oysters and seafood, is it true that restaurants that open on the seaside of the cities do way better than restaurants that open, you know, in the in the middle of the city or in suburbia? That's only because of the the sea side of Yeah, the seaside of part of it.

sam (: 21:20

location.

mark (: 21:25

of the view or the location.

sam (: 21:25

don't think so. I

don't think so. Sometimes I think the restaurants on the sea sometimes take the piss. You know, they're on the sea. So you expect them to have like I said before, you expecting them to have the freshest of the fresh when really they don't. And I've seen it. I've seen it. I've seen some top restaurants. I've gone behind the scenes of some top restaurants here in Melbourne, that are right on the ocean. I'm not going to name them. But they got a lot of frozen products in there.

mark (: 21:29

Okay.

And

however, like he said, customer perception wise, they automatically think if I go to a seafood restaurant on a, you know, on a seaside, I'll get a fresher fish or a freshest seafood. But it's not true.

sam (: 22:00

Of course. Yep.

Yep. You'll get a fresh product, but it's not true. It's not true. I think sometimes it just

comes down to the F, the quality of the chef and owner that own those restaurants. You know.

mark (: 22:22

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, people are not dumb anymore. Perception wise, if you're a tourist and you see there is a restaurant on the sea or on a river and they're serving seafood, you might have that perception. But if you're local, and you know your restaurants, you'd know after experiences, you know, who's good and who's not.

It doesn't have, he's not selling or offering quality. You won't be sold on that frame that they're creating anymore. And that's obviously based on experience. So you could, you could tell the best story in the world. You could have the best location in the world, but at the end of the day, if you don't live up to that experience, you're, you're going to lose that position or lose that frame that you're trying to communicate with people.

sam (: 23:15

Yeah, 100%.

mark (: 23:15

Yes.

What else that's been happening this week, man? What's the status of the market? What's happening with you? Have you been doing anything else? Have you noticed anything else?

sam (: 23:26

Yeah, look man, I'm about to open up, well not open up, I'm about to redo a menu for a new client down in Hawthorne East. You know, it's about to get, you know, we're about to possibly put in a new head chef, give the menu a bit more of a actual, more of a Middle Eastern sort of style vibe with a little bit of Greek through there because he's a bit Middle Eastern Greek sort of owner.

you know, a little bit of Italian in there and obviously a little bit of Asian. so it's one of those, you know, sort of mix and matched sort of style cafes. but we're just going to really bring the food back to being a little bit more simpler, and, and a little bit, focused on again, the grill, the owner hasn't got a grill at the moment, but he really wants to get, that sort of like smoky aspect, and flavor, for his meats and.

ust make it a little bit more: 2024

mark (: 24:37

Yes.

sam (: 24:49

Another one of those sort of eye opening situations where you go, not everybody has all the equipment, all the all the bells and whistles to be able to create these extravagant crazy menus, but you can still cook really amazing food in such a small little space. And that's probably something that I've managed to hone over my last 10 years as a consultant, is that you can walk into anything and create a menu around the kitchen. And if you're really, really smart, you'll nail it.

mark (: 25:19

That's very interesting. What about the strength that I've been seeing recently with fast casual or versions of that? What I mean by that is a lot of restaurants across pretty much states, they're converting their operations from a full service restaurant to a fast casual, which is sort of like...

it in between fast and fast casual. Do you know that the the Betty's Burgers version where you go to the counter, you place your order, then you go to the next window and pick up your order, you sit in your dining and you walk away?

sam (: 26:00

Yes, I kind of know what you're talking about.

mark (: 26:02

Yeah, so what they're trying to do, and I've seen that with several full service restaurants because of labor cost, interest rates, inflation, all that sort of negative negativity that's happening in the market at the moment. Some of them what they're trying to do is convert from full service to fast casual where people will go to the up to the counter order, then pick up the order, sit down and eat.

and there's no, even the cutlery or the packaging that you get plating that you get, it's actually like a throw throw away. so there's no, there's not even a, a, a, a dishwashing facility or a person that's going to take care of that or, or any, any of that. And, apparently that's, helping them with keeping costs down.

yeah, I've, I have seen that I've seen that like at least, with, from just the, I personally, no, he's like maybe four, four places, two in Melbourne, one in, sunshine coast and another one in Sydney. and I'm, I'm sure there is a lot more than that, but these are just the ones that I've seen this year. what do you, what do you think about that?

sam (: 27:24

Well, yeah

Yeah, look, I think it's a great concept, to be honest. You know, everybody's looking to get in and get out real quick. And I mean, especially during that lunch rush, you know what I mean?

mark (: 27:37

Yeah, I find it interesting. And I think it's a lot more doable.

sam (: 27:40

And that's how you just get

it in real quick and out, you know, like, so we don't all have one or two hours to sit down during our break, you know.

mark (: 27:49

Yeah, and I've seen it look where I've seen it successful is in places where they're big on takeaway as well. Like, so a street sort of like Asian fusion slash street food. They do a lot of takeaway and they obviously do a lot of dining, but it's easy for them to to offer that concept because it's already working for them in the takeaway.

sam (: 27:58

Yes.

Yeah,

it's already a part of their business. It gets a bit hard to do that when you're mostly dining. When you're dining, it can be a little bit hard to do. You know, you got to store boxes, you got to have all that stuff ready to go. Like if it's not like already sort of pre -paid, yes. And then you've got a problem. I've had that kind of issue before.

mark (: 28:18

version? Yeah.

Dine in, yes.

Yes.

And the menu isn't designed to be served in that.

sam (: 28:42

with a client where they wanted to do takeaway burgers and takeaway this and takeaway that, but the kitchen was too small. And I was like, where are you going to put all the boxes? Where are you going to put all the stuff? Where are you going to keep everything? And then they sort of took a seat back. I was like, wait till you get your menu right, then do all that stuff, you know, figure it out after, but don't try and do everything straight away. Just takeaway. Exactly. And takeaway can take up a lot of space.

mark (: 28:48

Yeah. Yes.

Thanks.

Yes, so you have to think about your operations.

Yes.

sam (: 29:06

You need packing,

especially when you start doing Uber Eats and all this other stuff, it gets a little bit hectic. You know, like where are you going to store all the pre, where are you going to store all the made, all the, all the orders that are ready to go? Where are they going to pick it up from? Are they going to walk through the restaurant? Are they going to walk through the back door? Are they coming up three flights of stairs? I don't know where you are, but you get the idea. You know, where are you?

mark (: 29:19

Yes.

Yes. So all that stuff

they have to think about if they don't have already a takeaway, a takeaway offering. Yes. Yes. Yes.

sam (: 29:30

Yes, if it's not a part of your business, if it's definitely not a part of your

business, it would be like now trying to say to Rockpool, now do takeaway while you're doing service. So you're trying to do 400 dollars and then you're trying to pack away stakes in a box. Yeah, good luck.

mark (: 29:38

Yes.

That would be crazy.

That would be crazy. No, look, I've seen it in mainly in casual, casual restaurants. So it was easy for them to convert. They already had a takeaway section or offering. So it was easy for them to just convert to a fast casual where people decide to take it away or sit down. But yeah, that's working for them, I guess.

Well, also I've seen it in Indian. I've seen it in Italian because it's easier to put that, you know pizza and pasta in in in boxes and stuff But yeah, yeah, so that was interesting To see and I just spoke to someone this morning. They own a Sir Alankan Restaurant and they've also switched to a fast casual this year

sam (: 30:34

Okay.

mark (: 30:38

And apparently he said it's working very well for him and he doesn't have to deal with any stuff on the floor or Dishwashing or any of that part. So yeah, always I always I hear a lot of stories and we work with all sort of Categories, but yeah, that's what's that's what's going on at the moment What else what else we could talk about because it's where are we we 30 minutes in?

sam (: 31:00

for.

We're

getting pretty close to normally. Yeah, look, I mean, Mark, the industry at the moment, just in general, I guess you can start to see, you know, we, I guess we talk about this every little every week, I guess a bit, you see the prices are starting to rise. And you see, you know, these, you know, like a couple of weeks ago, I mean,

mark (: 31:06

So we probably could cover one more thing.

sam (: 31:35

I don't know how many, I don't know how people are changing their menus. like a lot, but as in like changing your, especially with costs costs, it's more the costs. Like when you've got one week box of beans is $22. And then the next day shoot up to $75. How do you deal with that? You know, do you change your menu? Do you change the prices around?

mark (: 31:40

feeling.

Changes, perception changes. Okay. Offering.

sam (: 32:04

Is that something that you talk about with your supplier? I mean, the way that I'm dealing with it is I just, I tend not to mention too many things on a menu these days. I won't mention every single thing in a dish so that I can do what I want exactly. So if the beans do do that or any of the produce does that, I can turn around and I can 86 it and I can put something else in there instead.

mark (: 32:20

So you can be flexible. So you can be flexible. Yeah.

Yeah.

sam (: 32:31

you know, like I, you know, me, I've always said, you know, I don't believe that you should put certain flowers or items on your menu that may not be available. Because otherwise, you're just gonna have to read the menu. Exactly. You know, you're entering into that debt, a menu debt that is unnecessary. You know, like saying that you have viola flowers or freeze dried mandarins or

mark (: 32:42

or at unnecessary cost.

Yeah.

sam (: 32:57

nasturtium leaves and things like that. And you know, I hate nasturtium leaves. Like, just things like that. And you know, the industry itself, I guess, they need to be at the moment, we need to be very, very smart. I mean, one thing that I suggest doing and you know, if you if you word your menu correctly, you you're king, you're king if you can word your menu correctly.

mark (: 33:05

I like that.

if you if you engineer the menu in a way that it's flexible enough for you to make any changes on the go without having to explain anything to to anybody. I like I like that. Is there any other tips? I think that that's alone is is a big one.

sam (: 33:35

Of course. Yeah.

So I guess.

Definitely.

mark (: 33:46

What about what about have you noticed people habits changing suburbia versus destination, but back during COVID or what coming out of COVID we noticed that there was a trend that restaurants in suburbs were doing very well where restaurants in destination places were weren't doing that great. And that's because obviously because of people weren't feeling confident to leave their

sam (: 34:08

Yeah.

mark (: 34:16

suburbs and they're trying to stay local and in addition to that there was a lot of stimulus money in people's pockets where today I'm seeing that there is a bit of a reverse that destination places are doing well where suburbia is doing less and that's because people run out of stimulus money and

sam (: 34:36

You're right.

mark (: 34:43

So and if anybody is planning to go out, it's mainly for an occasion or, you know,

sam (: 34:50

If you're going to a specific destination restaurant, most of the time it's like again, it's a destination restaurant. Like you're traveling to get there. So not only is it expensive to eat there, but it's also expensive to get there, to drive these days. I mean, it used to be 90 cents when I was filling up petrol.

mark (: 35:00

Yeah.

Yeah.

in cop box and stuff like that.

sam (: 35:12

And

now you park a car, you can't even park anywhere, especially if you're going into the city. It's ridiculous. You can't park anywhere in the city for an hour without paying 50, 60 bucks.

mark (: 35:16

Hmm. Hmm. But it's.

So it's interesting to see that reverse, where you know, but then again, that makes people question themselves, like, what am I doing wrong? I'm like, well, you're not really doing anything wrong. It's just where when when it's just the economy that we're at the moment. It's, it's sort of like forcing people to change their habits.

sam (: 35:36

the economy we're in.

mark (: 35:46

and the way that they're spending their money because they don't have as much disposable income as they used to. but that, that doesn't mean that you just stand there and you do, and you don't do anything. If you're, if you just have to play your game, if you're a casual restaurant, you have to act like a casual restaurant. You have to do things, that makes sense to people. And in this very time and,

and situation where you might do more promotions, more activations, not necessarily discounts, but things that excite people, you know, like, I don't know, new cocktails, new dishes or something that's not gonna cannibalize your obviously your existing menu and or

do you do some really cool things on, on occasions like mother's day, father's day, Valentine's day. you, all these things that happen throughout the year, you might go a little bit more extra to, to create more excitement. You might do some special nights, special events, this long lunches. There's always something, there's always something to do that's got nothing to do with discounts. but it can excite people and, and get them to come over or you might, yeah, you might.

sam (: 37:05

Yeah, of course. Discounts

mark (: 37:07

right. Unless you're dominoes or... Yes.

sam (: 37:07

is the worst thing in the world to do. I just, sorry to butt in there, but I just discounts and giving things away. Yeah, exactly, man. Giving things away for free and doing discounts is not the way to attract people into your business. It's a way to attract people who don't want to eat.

mark (: 37:18

Nah man, unless you're Dominos

or McDonald's or someone like that.

sam (: 37:25

The only people you're going to attract by giving things away for free are entitled people, influencers, and people who just want to come rape and pillage you and leave.

mark (: 37:38

And most likely once the discount is over, they go back to their regular habits. They're not going to come back.

sam (: 37:40

Yeah, they're not coming back. Exactly. They're gonna

go back to their Big Mac meal at McDonald's. I mean, if you think about it, even these days, man, if you go to McDonald's these days, you're gonna spend $30 for two people. You might as well go to the cafe down the road. You might as well go to the restaurant down the road and pay 70 bucks and get good food.

mark (: 37:51

Exactly.

and get good food.

Yeah, get good food. But so yeah, there is, like I said today, it doesn't mean that you're doing anything wrong. It's just about what else you could do. And if you ask me what else I could do, play your game. If you're a casual restaurant, focus on the stuff that you could do. Like I said, promotions, activations, things, things that is going to excite people, you know, if you're a if you're a fine dining restaurant.

then you gotta play your game, tell more stories, play on the emotions of people, communicate your experience, go out of your way to really push what you're all about. Don't just stand there and think, I'm a fine dining joint, I don't need to do anything, all I have to do is put some really nice looking photos on my social media and serve really good food and that will come. No, just play your game.

play your game doesn't matter where you're at with your you know on what level you're playing just play it and and and go out there and put it out to the world like the other day I was I was talking to people they've started some really upscale restaurant somewhere I'm not going to mention where and what or what I'm going to say is hey how about we tell some stories about you guys like the the background of the background.

of you guys when you come from because they really have a good history and a really good background that will help them communicate or tell a really good story behind the brand that they started the restaurant that they started then people can sort of like connect the dots. yeah, that makes sense. I'll come and try them out. But they were too shy, too shy to be in front of camera too shy to say anything in front of camera to they just wanted to showcase the food, then want to tell.

any stories, they don't want to be in front of camera, they don't want any stuff to be in front of camera, they just want it to showcase the food. But I'm like, but if you want to, you're creating a brand, and you want to play on, you know, you're an upscale restaurant or a fine dining restaurant, and you've got no story to tell, what would someone come and pay just because it looked, the photos looks good, and you got nice interior, like what, that's not gonna tell anything to anybody.

sam (: 40:14

I mean, at the end

of the day, Mark, restaurants sometimes these, and this is the problem too, restaurants, cafes, I mean, all these places sometimes these days, they're like, it's like going shopping for a house. You know, when you go and you see the photos on the internet or you see a business on the internet and the photos are like over the top and they're super hyperly done and they look amazing. And then you get there and it's just not that. And a lot of places are like that at the moment.

mark (: 40:23

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, yes.

Yes. So sometimes it comes down to confidence, like they're too scared to communicate or be confident in what they have to offer sometimes because they can't live up to the promise. But these people are genuinely doing a good job. And you know, and

And I think when you are generally doing a good job, your confidence levels should be high enough for you to get out there and tell your story and create a story behind what you're creating. That way people can make a connection. If anybody in PR or media, they're looking into you, they can create a connection between, okay, so these guys, this is their history, this is their story, and this is what they've created. I want to do a story about them. But when you're...

When you're too shy and you don't have any story to tell at all, even though you've got one, but you're not really telling it and you're just trying to push out, you know, good looking photos, a good looking venue and wait for people to come and pay premium. And you've got no, like we were just talking about storytelling and the story that you tell and the frame that you set and the positioning that you put. If you don't have all of that,

You don't really have anything. That's my perspective.

sam (: 42:06

Yeah, of course. You gotta you gotta have some sort of there's got to be a linchpin for people to hold on to.

mark (: 42:13

Yeah, then they make a connection. They create a connection. And based on that connection, they have a connection to your brand or to to what you're creating. And I feel they're they're part of what you're creating. They come and they support you and say, I've been there and they go back home or to work and say, I've been to this place. And did you know the chef he worked at this in this place and and you know, and and so you tell them as you give them enough storytelling so they can go on and on. It's like,

sam (: 42:16

That's right.

mark (: 42:43

Dude, how long people been telling... How old is the Bible? How old is the Torah, the Koran? All those... How old is the... All those stuff that's been out there for thousands of years, yeah? It's all because... And there was no photography back then. It's all words. But storytelling is so powerful. Books that's thousands of years old, people are selling...

retelling those stories today and they had no photos, there's no paintings in it, there's no drawings in it, there's nothing other than just pure words. That's how powerful is storytelling. Hey, we're 40 minutes in. I guess we've got enough for this session. Do you have anything else that you'd like to add?

sam (: 43:30

No, I think that's it, man. It was.

mark (: 43:32

That's good enough, eh?

But I guess we touched on a lot of good stuff this time. I'm happy with it. Sam, thanks so much for your time and until the next one.

sam (: 43:44

Cheers mate, I'll speak to you soon.

mark (: 43:45

Cheers,

buddy.